Manish Sisodia Bail Hearing : Live Updates From Supreme Court In Delhi Liquor Policy Scam Case

ASG Raju: At stage of punishment.

Khanna J: Correct, but if you accept it, how do you treat it as separate offence?

ASG Raju: If it's created, there will be some possession. After generation, someone must have possession. Cannot be simpliciter generation. Here, this is a case of projection.

Khanna J: Not on facts, but general principles. Jurisprudentially, how will it play out?

Khanna J: No. Because at the time, it has been generated. It's a grey area. Suppose generation stops, at that stage, offence is not there...This is where grey area is. Because if it is a separate offence, If ingredients are the same, then double jeopardy would apply.

Khanna J: Suppose a person has been caught red-handed with a bribe. Is that money laundering?

ASG Raju: Yes.

ASG SV Raju: Generation is an offence. (Relies on Y Balaji)

Khanna J: No, generation is not covered. Suppose after this nothing happens. It'll only be an attempt. You'll be in difficulty because of double jeopardy and S26 of General Clauses Act. It may also run foul of Vijay Madanlal Choudhary.

ASG SV Raju: Indospirit's 12% profit margin for the policy period was Rs 192 crore. All endeavours were made that Indospirit gets this...

Khanna J: That difference between 12% and 5% is projected by you as proceeds of crime.

Raju: Yes, relatable to proceeds of crime.

ASG SV Raju: Section 17A covers only offences under this act. To PMLA, it will not apply.

Khanna J: But, that's the primary offence, no?

ASG Raju: My officers say that permission has been taken. Therefore, this discussion is academic.

ASG SV Raju: There are two kinds of proceeds of crime according to us: Bribe, as well as excess profit.

Khanna J: Will it be coverable by S 17A of PC Act? It covers only bribe, otherwise will be a part of policy decision...It's not an absolute bar, but a limited bar. Please read the section.

ASG SV Raju: Cost to retailer increased by 12% because of 12% margin...which will percolate to amount charged to consumer. Actual money paid by consumer would be more. This increase would ultimately be borne by the consumer.

ASG SV Raju: Ultimately consumers would pay more because of this increase in wholesale margin.

Khanna J: There are four persons to whom 12% could have gone. Manufacturers - either price would have remained the same or they could have brought price down; distributor; retailer; or govt in form of excise duty. Fifth possibility is that this could have led to reduction of price.

ASG SV Raju: Retailers of South group - they were given unwarranted credit for recouping bribe given...Also no rationale for increasing profit margin to 12% from 5%. This is an afterthought, there's no mention in minutes of meeting.